Rooted Dialogues — Season 2, Episode 1 (Reboot)

Bringing the Light: Returning to the Root

Rooted Dialogues returns for Season Two with a renewed format, new conversations, and a deeper exploration of the connections between culture, identity, education, community, and purpose.

Cohosts Victoria Brown and LaVon Gordon welcome listeners back and introduce the new recurring segments that will shape the season: Root Check, Black Nugget of the Week, Today’s Dialogue, From the Pages, Deep Dive, Take Root Challenge, and Community Reflection.

The episode also catches up on what has been growing since Season One, including developments at Saint Rest Publications, new publishing initiatives and resources, upcoming projects, collaborations, and the continuing professional and scholarly work of Dr. Lathardus Goggins II.

Dr. Goggins then joins Victoria and LaVon as a special guest to introduce the central text for Season Two, Bringing the Light into a New Day: African-centered Rites of Passage. Together, they explore the meaning behind the metaphor of “bringing the light,” the principle of Sankofa, the intentional transmission of cultural wisdom, and why African-centered rites of passage remain relevant to families, educators, and communities today.

The conversation also raises a question that will follow listeners throughout the season: What kind of human beings are we intentionally developing—and what wisdom are we responsible for passing forward?

Season Two begins by returning to the root so that we can thoughtfully move into a new day.

Rooted Dialogues: Where Community, Culture, and Critical Thought Converge.

Rooted Dialogues is a production of Saint Rest Publications — Where Community, Culture, and Critical Thought Converge

Visit us at Afrocentric.Info/SaintRest to explore more from Saint Rest Publications.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Welcome to Rooted Dialogues, a St. Rest Publications podcast where community, culture, and critical thought converge. I'm Victoria Brown.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

And I'm LeVonne Gordon, Victoria. It feels good to say those words again.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

It really does. Welcome back, everybody. We are officially beginning season two of Rooted Dialogues. And whether you've been with us from the beginning or this is the very first episode you've discovered, we are glad you're here.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Absolutely. And if you're joining us for the first time, Rooted Dialogues is a space for thoughtful conversations about education, culture, identity, history, community, books, and the ideas that shape how we understand ourselves in the world around us.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

And you'll notice some changes this season. We learned a lot during season one. We've had time to think about what worked, what we wanted to expand, and what kind of experience we wanted rooted dialogues to become. So we're coming back with a new structure.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

You could call it a reboot, same roots, but we're growing some new branches.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I like that. And uh throughout season two, you'll hear several recurring segments. We'll begin with a root check, a question designed to get us thinking. We'll share a black nugget of the week, drawing from 365 black nuggets, wisdom for each day of the year. We'll have today's dialogue, where we'll share updates from St. Rest publications, our authors, collaborations, events, and some of the work happening around us. Then we'll move from the pages into our primary conversation for this season.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

And that's where season two gets especially interesting. This season we're taking a deep dive into Dr. Lothardus Goggins II's bringing the light into a new day, African-centered rites of passage. We're going to work our way through the book, chapter by chapter and concept by concept, and periodically we're going to invite Dr. Goggins himself to join us and help us unpack the material. Including today.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Dr. Goggins will be joining us a little later in this episode to help us launch this journey. Then we'll conclude each episode with a take root challenge, something practical you can actually do, and a community reflection that we hope you'll continue discussing after the podcast ends. So, Lavon? Yes? Season two. Are you ready? I'm rooted and ready. Then let's get started. It's time for our first root check of season two. And here's today's question. What wisdom from your past are you intentionally carrying into your future? I'll say it again. What wisdom from your past are you intentionally carrying into your future? Lavon, what comes to mind when you hear that?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

The word that immediately comes to mind is intentional, because we all carry things from the past. Some things we carry because somebody taught them to us, some because we watched our parents or grandparents do them. Some things are traditions, some are habits, some are values. And if we're being truthful, some things we carry simply because nobody ever told us we could put them down. That's important. So the question isn't simply, what did you inherit? The question asks what you're intentionally carrying forward. That requires some examination. What deserves to continue? What has served us? What has strengthened our families? What wisdom did our elders possess that maybe we didn't fully appreciate when we were younger? And what do we need to understand well enough that we can pass it on?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

And that's a beautiful entry point into this season because one of the concepts we're going to encounter repeatedly is Sankopha, the idea of reaching back, retrieving what is valuable, and bringing it forward. But, and we'll talk more about this with Dr. Goggins, that doesn't mean romanticizing everything in the past. It requires reflection, discernment, and purpose.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

So we'll leave that root check with you. What wisdom from your past are you intentionally carrying into your future? Write it down, talk about it with somebody, maybe ask an elder, and keep it in mind as we move through today's conversation.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Now it's time for our black nugget of the week. Each episode we'll select a quote, proverb, or saying from Dr. Goggin's 365 Black Nuggets, Wisdom for Each Day of the Year. The book is a collection of wisdom drawn from across the African experience and African diaspora designed to give readers something to reflect upon each day.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

And today's nugget is a proverb: he who does not cultivate his field will die of hunger. That's short. But there's a lot in it. A whole lot. What does it say to you? Cultivation requires work. A field may contain everything necessary to produce something valuable. The soil may be fertile, you may have seeds, you may have rain and sunlight. But potential isn't the same thing as a harvest. Something has to be cultivated.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

And when we apply that beyond agriculture, the field could be almost anything. Your mind, your gifts, your children, your relationships, your family, your community, your culture, your institutions.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Even your memory, because if we don't cultivate our knowledge of where we come from, eventually there are things we simply stop knowing. And once nobody remembers, it becomes very difficult to pass that wisdom forward.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

That connects directly to where we're going this season. How do communities cultivate people? How do we intentionally prepare the next generation? What happens when that process breaks down? And what role can rites of passage play in restoring some of that intentional development? We'll return to those questions. Before we get into the book, we have some catching up to do, because rooted dialogues may have taken a break between seasons. But St.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Rest Publications certainly did not.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Not at all. There's been quite a bit happening. One of the biggest developments is that St. Rest Publications itself has been expanding. The St. Rest website has been redesigned and reorganized to give visitors a clearer picture of everything St. Rest is becoming.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

And when people hear St. Rest publications, naturally they think books, and books remain central, but the new site gives people a better opportunity to explore the larger St. Rest ecosystem. That begins with the St. Rest Publications catalog, the books and print materials published through St. Rest.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

That includes Dr. Goggins' titles along with other works published through St. Rest. But we're also developing Black Star Classics. Black Star Classics gives readers access to significant classic works and helps place contemporary St. Rest publications within a broader intellectual and cultural tradition.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

And there's also a curated resource section. That's important because sometimes the challenge isn't finding a book. The challenge is knowing which books deserve your attention.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Exactly. So St. Rest is curating important books, best-selling works, special selections, related products, and resources from organizations and companies with whom St. Rest has relationships or partnerships. It's another way of helping readers find pathways into deeper learning.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

The website also now gives more visibility to St. Rest publication services. So for the person listening who has been saying for the last five years, I have a book in me. You knew you were going there. Because everybody knows somebody with a book in them. That's true. But there's a tremendous distance between having an idea for a book and holding the finished book in your hands. St. Rest is expanding services designed to help authors navigate parts of that journey, including manuscript development and publishing support.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

And another project we're excited about is the St. Rest Publications Reader Series. The reader series consists of shorter ebooks released periodically throughout the year. The first reader is Bringing the Light, Integrity, Identity, Authenticity, and Belonging. The series builds upon essays, posts, reflections, and writings from Dr. Gogginson develops those ideas into practical resources around African thought, philosophy, identity, and practice.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

So somebody may encounter an idea in a social media post and think, I wish Doc would say more about that. The reader series creates room for that more.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Exactly. And uh St. Rest is also moving forward with audiobook development and updated printings from the catalog. We know people consume information differently now. Some people love the physical book, some prefer an e-book, others may spend an hour commuting every day and would much rather listen. The goal is to create multiple ways for people to encounter the work.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

And I get to make a personal announcement here. You do. My book, Shades of Love, will be reissued through St. Rest Publications, and I'm genuinely excited about bringing the work back to readers through St. Rest. A reissue gives a work another life. It gives you an opportunity to introduce it to people who didn't encounter it the first time and to revisit it from where you are today.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

And uh we're excited to have it as part of the catalog. Dr. Goggins has also remained extremely busy since season one. He's continued facilitating workshops, professional learning, book discussions, speaking engagements, and advocacy work. He's also contributed writing to several significant scholarly projects. One involves the work of Dr. Yolanda Seely Ruiz and her archaeology of self-framework, particularly around racial literacy and the introspective work educators must engage in when examining race, racism, identity, and their own practice.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

He's also contributed to the second edition of the Encyclopedia of African American Education, edited by Dr. Kofi Lamotti. That work examines the broad history and experience of African American education, institutions, educators, educational thought, and the continuing struggle around educational opportunity and equality.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

And another writing project explores the intersection of self and navigating academic success, something that connects very closely to themes listeners heard us explore during season one. But there's another project that's especially interesting. Dr. Goggins has been working with former schoolmates on something that sits somewhere between educational research, case study, history, and memoir.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

And the premise alone is fascinating. People who came through the same school environment travel very different paths, encounter different challenges and supports, and ultimately earn doctorates in education. Now they're looking back at their shared educational environment with the benefit of experience and scholarship.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

They're essentially asking, what can our individual stories tell us about the larger story of urban education? What helped? What hindered? What did the institution provide? What did families and communities provide? What had to be discovered independently? And what does all of that tell us about educating young people today? It's been a passion project for Dr. Goggins for several years, and we're hoping we'll have much more to share about it as the project develops.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

St. Rest Publications is also in community spaces, festivals, conferences, book discussions, and cultural events. St. Rest has presented at Juneteenth the Indiana Black Expo and will be at other gatherings and collaborations. Check out St. Rest Publications on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok to see pictures and videos.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yes, we have been busy this spring and summer, and I haven't even mentioned the advocacy work that Dr. Goggins is doing. Wait, there's more? Most definitely. I've also been busy coordinating activities, book discussions, and opportunities involving Dr. Goggins and St. Rest publications. And there are several collaborations we're looking forward to sharing as they develop, so stay tuned.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Another project listeners should watch is the relaunch of Afrosoul.network. The vision is a curated portal bringing together headlines, information, and deeper conversations from across the African diaspora and black consciousness communities.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

And that's important in the current media environment. We have more information available to us than perhaps any generation in history. But access to information doesn't automatically create understanding. Curation matters, context matters, knowing where to look matters.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

So there's a lot growing. Publishing, new additions, digital resources, audiobooks, scholarship, events, collaborations, professional development, and, of course, rooted dialogues.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Which brings us to the centerpiece of season two. Throughout this season, we're going from the pages of Dr. Lothardus Goggins II's Bringing the Light into a New Day, African-Centered Rites of Passage. The 25th Anniversary Edition examines the purpose, function, structure, process, and transformative power of African-centered rites of passage. And because we're beginning this journey today, we thought there was one person we probably ought to invite into the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Probably.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

The author.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

That might help.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Joining us today as our special guest is educator, author, publisher, and consultant, Dr. Lothardus Goggins II. Doc, welcome back to Rooted Dialogues.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Thank you. I'm glad to be here, and I'm especially excited about the direction you're taking the podcast this season.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Now, Doc, we should establish something before we go any further. Victoria and I are running things this season.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

I understand.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

He's saying that now I'll behave.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Doc, before we get into individual chapters over the coming episodes, let's start with the title itself: Bringing the Light into a New Day. What is the light?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

In the book, I use light as a metaphor for opportunity, hope, and wisdom. And one of the ideas behind the title is that every new day requires us to bring something forward. The new day doesn't erase yesterday. We arrive in that new day carrying knowledge, experiences, traditions, lessons, successes, failures, and wisdom. So the question becomes what are we bringing with us and how are we using it? For African people in America and throughout the diaspora, that question becomes particularly important because there have been deliberate historical disruptions in our ability to transfer collective cultural wisdom from one generation to the next. So when you say bring in the light, there's action involved. Absolutely. We can't simply wait for the light. We participate in creating and managing it. Think about the sun. Each new day brings new light, but the source of that light is ancient. That's a useful metaphor for culture and heritage. We're living in circumstances our ancestors couldn't have imagined. We shouldn't try to recreate the past exactly as it existed. But there is wisdom from the past that can help us navigate the present and create the future. And that's where Sankofa becomes important.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Let's stay there because people hear the word Sankofa quite often now. What does Sankko mean in the context of this book?

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I describe Sankhopha as going back and fetching what has worked. But there's an important qualification. You examine the past, you examine the present. You consider the future you're trying to create. Then you retrieve from the past those things that can help you create that desired future. That's an active intellectual process. It requires discernment.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

That takes us back to our root check. What wisdom from your past are you intentionally carrying into your future?

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Exactly. And the word intentionally is doing a lot of work there. Because tradition alone doesn't make something useful. Age doesn't automatically make something wise. We have to ask what a particular practice was designed to accomplish. Did it work? Under what circumstances? Does the underlying principle remain relevant? And if it does, how should that principle be expressed under today's conditions?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

So Sankopha can involve adaptation. It has to.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

If we're simply copying the past, we're not practicing Sankopha in the fullest sense. We're reproducing. Sankopha is dynamic.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Let's move to the other major phrase in the title. For somebody listening who has never studied rites of passage, they may hear that and picture a ceremony. Maybe something that happens when a child becomes a teenager. Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Ceremony can be part of it, but rites of passage is much broader. I describe rites of passage as a process through which people come to understand who they are, what they are about, their purpose, their responsibilities, and their movement from one state or stage of existence into another. So we're talking about human development, we're talking about identity, we're talking about values, we're talking about responsibility, we're talking about the deliberate transfer of collective cultural wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

And one of the arguments you make in the book is that rites of passage are universal.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yes. Human beings develop, every society has mechanisms that communicate expectations about what it means to move from childhood toward adulthood, from adulthood toward eldership, and through other changes in social responsibility. The question isn't really whether rites of passage exist. The question is how deliberate and conscious we are about the values and philosophies being transferred through that process.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

That's a major distinction. Because somebody might say, we don't practice rites of passage, but you're saying development is still occurring.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Yes. Something is shaping the person. Something is teaching the child what success means. Something is teaching them what adulthood means. Something is communicating ideas about masculinity, femininity, family, money, relationships, spirituality, power, community, and responsibility. If the family and community aren't consciously involved in that process, other institutions and influences will fill that space. School, school, social media, absolutely, peers, entertainment, advertising, algorithms, popular culture. And none of those influences are neutral. They carry values.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Which brings us back to today's black nugget. He who does not cultivate his field will die of hunger.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

That's one of the assumptions I discuss in the book. When we apply that proverb to community, the field includes our children. Everything a community will need tomorrow is potentially present in its children today. Your future teachers are there. Your future doctors, your future artists, your future entrepreneurs, your future parents, your future elders, your future problem solvers, your future leadership. If you don't cultivate that field, eventually the community suffers from what it failed to develop.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

That's a very different way of talking about education. Because usually education gets reduced to grades, graduation rates, test scores, college acceptance.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Those things can have value, but they're incomplete measures of human development. A person can be academically credentialed and still have very little understanding of self. A person can have considerable technical skill and very little understanding of responsibility. They can achieve professionally and remain disconnected from community. So one of the questions African-Centered Rites of Passage asks is what kind of human being are we trying to develop? And then what experiences, relationships, knowledge, rituals, expectations, and responsibilities will help that person develop?

SPEAKER_00 22:56

That sounds like a question every school should have to answer.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Every school, every family, every community organization, every faith community, and really every adult who has responsibility for children.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

There's another phrase you use throughout the book that I want us to introduce today because listeners are going to hear it repeatedly this season. Family-based, community-linked. Why is that distinction important?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Because human development occurs within relationships, the family has an important responsibility for helping the individual understand identity, heritage, values, traditions, expectations, and purpose. But we're not created simply to serve ourselves or even just our immediate family. Our gifts have social implications. Our purpose connects us to other people. So the development process must also connect the individual to community. That's why I emphasize family-based and community-linked.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

So rites of passage become something larger than individual self-improvement.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Much larger. Purpose carries responsibility. If I've been given certain gifts, abilities, experiences, opportunities, and knowledge, I should eventually be asking, how do these things allow me to serve? How do they help my family? How do they strengthen my community? What am I responsible for contributing?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Doc, this is the 25th anniversary edition. So I want to ask a question we're probably going to ask you several times this season. When you read something you wrote more than 25 years ago, do you ever say, I don't know about that one anymore?

SPEAKER_01 24:54

Of course. That's good. That's part of growth. If I looked at everything I wrote 25 years ago and had exactly the same understanding today, I would have to question whether I'd learned anything in 25 years. The core principles remain important to me, but experience changes, nuance. Research changes, language changes, our social conditions change, and I've had decades more experience as an educator, consultant, parent, scholar, facilitator, and practitioner. So part of what makes this season interesting is that we're not simply reading the book as a historical document. We can ask what is held up? What needs greater nuance? What have I learned? What would I say differently today? What has happened in education since the original work that confirms some of these ideas? And where have new frameworks helped us understand the work more deeply?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And that gives us a lot to work with this season. A whole lot. Because we're going chapter by chapter, we're going to talk about purpose and function, structure and process, African cultural context, family traditions, the rites of passage model, transformative power. Your own rites of passage experiences, purpose, social bonds, and resiliency, constructing a family-based, community-linked process. And ultimately.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

The call to action.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

That's where it has to end. Because knowledge without application doesn't accomplish much. The purpose isn't simply to know more about rites of passage. The deeper question is what we do with what we know.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

And that brings us to our first take root challenge. Every episode this season, we're going to leave you with one practical activity. Something small enough to actually do, but meaningful enough to make you think.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

For this week, we're going back to Sankofa. Your challenge is to have one intentional conversation with an elder or older member of your family or community. Ask them, what is something your generation knew that you don't want our generation to forget?

SPEAKER_00 27:18

And then listen. Don't debate, don't correct, don't rush to tell your own story. Listen. If they're comfortable with it, write down what they tell you. Then ask yourself, why did they choose that lesson? Is it still relevant? And what would it look like to carry that wisdom forward today?

SPEAKER_02 27:37

That's your take root challenge. One person, one conversation, one piece of wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

And our community reflection grows directly from that challenge. Here's the question we'd like you to discuss. What wisdom does our community risk losing if we don't intentionally pass it forward?

SPEAKER_02 27:57

That's a real question. What do we know today that our children may not know 20 years from now unless somebody deliberately teaches it?

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Share your reflection with us. Talk about it with your family. Bring it to your organization. Use it around the dinner table. Because rooted dialogues shouldn't end when the episode ends. The whole idea is to continue the dialogue. Doc, thank you for joining us for the first deep dive of season two.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Thank you for having me, and I'm looking forward to hearing what the two of you do with the book. You sound a little nervous. I'm keeping an eye on you.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

And that's something else listeners should understand. Dr. Goggins will be back throughout the season, but Levon and I will be guiding this journey together. Some weeks it will be the two of us exploring the text and its implications. Other weeks we'll bring Doc back to give us the author's perspective, explain particular concepts, tell some of the stories behind the writing, and perhaps answer a few difficult questions.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

And there will be difficult questions.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

There should be. Exactly. Because this is rooted dialogues. We're here to engage ideas seriously. If you're reading along with us, we encourage you to get a copy of Bringing the Light into a New Day, African-Centered Rites of Passage. Have it nearby when you listen. Underline things, write in the margins, question things, mark the passages that speak to you, and bring those ideas into your own conversations.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Don't just be a listener this season, become a study partner.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

We like that. And while you're at it, subscribe to Rooted Dialogues so you don't miss the next episode. You can also follow St. Rest Publications on social media for updates about new books, events, reader series releases, appearances, and upcoming episodes, and continue following Dr. Goggin's professional work, workshops, speaking engagements, and educational advocacy through his professional platforms and applied academic solutions.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Before we leave, let's return one final time to today's root check. What wisdom from your past are you intentionally carrying into your future?

SPEAKER_00 30:14

And our black nugget, he who does not cultivate his field will die of hunger. The field is ours, the cultivation is ours, and so is the responsibility for what we pass forward. Until next time, stay rooted. Keep growing, keep questioning, and keep bringing the light into a new day. I'm Victoria Brown. And I'm Lavon Gordon. This is Rooted Dialogues, where community, culture, and critical thought converge.